Kuban, an expert on dinosaur footprints. Because the ''man tracks'' were mingled with indisputable dinosaur prints, creationists argued that this was scientific ''proof'' that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. This, they said, represented evidence for the divine creation of all species in the beginning, according to the account in Genesis, and that this occurred as recently as 10, years ago, according to creationist chronologies. An accumulation of fossil and geologic evidence has led scientists to conclude that the earth is 4.
Fossil discoveries in Africa indicate that early human ancestors appeared about three million years ago. But the Paluxy River tracks, which were known of for decades, had posed a problem for scientists. The tracks were indeed humanlike. Each print is elongated, about 15 to 20 inches in length, and ends with an apparent round heel.
The toes are missing or indistinct, however, and this made it impossible to reach any satisfactory identification. The identified dinosaur prints in the same sediments have the distinctive three long digits, resembling the feet of huge birds. Toe Impressions Unnoticed.
Then along came Mr. Kuban, a computer programmer from Brunswick, Ohio, who majored in biology in college and has become an experienced student of dinosaur tracks. In he began to re-examine the Paluxy tracks in question, finding some faint impressions of toes that had gone largely unnoticed. Two summers ago, pursuing the investigation, Mr.
Fossilized Human Footprint Found Nestled in a Giant Sloth Footprint
Kuban said he found evidence that ''practically jumped out at you. Hastings, a high school science teacher from Waxahachie, Tex. Almost every one of the alleged human tracks, they found, was accompanied by distinct colorations in the rock that, upon detailed analysis, revealed the pattern of dinosaurian digits. The colorations ranged from blue-gray to rust, in contrast to the ivory to tan color of the surrounding limestone bearing the rest of the fossil footprint.
To Mr. Evidently, the new prints were real. The colorations were hardly visible, if at all, in earlier days, and we had mistakenly interpreted the vaguely human-like shapes as being of human origin. ICR responded with integrity and pulled my book off the market, as did Films for Christ with their documentary film. The tracks in question were more likely poorly formed dinosaur tracks, random erosion marks, or deliberate alterations to the original tracks. We looked diligently for evidence of foul play, but as yet no direct evidence of evolutionary fraud has been uncovered. Christians respect the truth, and the truth is, the tracks are too ambiguous to make a clear determination.
ICR holds rigorously to the view that dinosaurs lived at the same time as man, but feels that the Paluxy may not provide useful evidence for this. Others hold different views, and ICR encourages them to continue searching for evidence that could convince a skeptic. Meanwhile, we continue to study. Now, nearly all the prints have eroded and are gone. The state of Texas founded Dinosaur Valley State Park, but maintains access to very few dinosaur prints, disappointing many visitors. Meanwhile, the city of Glen Rose has grown and only with a personal guide can the remaining sites be found.
A clear understanding of how the prints formed and became altered has as of yet evaded this researcher, and it remains a grand mystery. A recent re-evaluation of a classic dinosaur print site in Australia presents evidence and an interpretation remarkably similar to that required by the Paluxy River data. Water depth varied greatly. Sometimes the dinosaurs were wading in shallow water, while sometimes they were swimming with the current, occasionally touching bottom. The trackways often appear and disappear, indicating that sometimes the dinosaurs were completely carried along by the water.
Often the prints are deep, while in other cases they are shallow—all very similar to those at Paluxy. Could a similar rare set of circumstances be responsible for the human-like shape within so many of the large dinosaur prints at Paluxy? We may never know. Just as the Paluxy prints are irreversibly eroding, revealing more or less information as they disappear, so the prints in Australia are fading.
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Meanwhile, my evaluation of the Paluxy footprints remains the same. They are too ambiguous to be used as an anti-evolution argument, but they just might be coming into their own as good evidence for Flood catastrophism. Morris is President of the Institute for Creation Research. Cite this article: Morris, J. Paluxy River: The Tale of the Trails. Skip to main content. As two leading anti-creation advocates wrote: Such an occurrence, if verified, would seriously disrupt conventional interpretations of biological and geological history and would support the doctrines of creationism and catastrophism.
Geologic Setting The Glen Rose Limestone, in which the prints rest, is several hundred feet thick and covers much of the southeastern North American continent.
Project History Examining the vast variety of individual prints at the Paluxy site impresses one that they were not made at a quiescent time when perfect prints would be expected. Current Status Now, nearly all the prints have eroded and are gone. References Milne, D. Journal of Geological Education. Whitcomb, J. The Creationist desire to have humans and dinosaurs living together is to show that the earth is young. Finding human remains alongside dinosaur remains would prove to Creationists that their views are right. The fact that they never are, except in cases of mistaken identity like this or outright fraud, as has been shown in some instances, shows that humans and dinosaurs never co-existed.
I find the claim that the tracks have been changing in the short time since they were discovered kind of hard to understand. If the tracks are changing that much in such a short time, how can they have survived for tens of millions of years? Nathan, put on your thinking cap. The tracks were not always exposed, nor always in a riverbed. Originally the tracks were made on a vast mud flat along the margin of a large shallow sea—essentially the ancient Gulf of Mexico which extended farther inland during lower Cretaceous times about million year ago.
After the tracks were made and probably dried and hardened for a short while , they were gently buried with a contrasting sediment, and subsequently more layers of sediment, and remained buried for most of geologic history, gradually turning into limestone. It was only in relatively modern times that the Paluxy river scoured away the rock layers over the tracks.
After becoming re-exposed, the tracks do erode and degrade significantly in a relatively short time—generally years to decades, depending on their specific location, type of rock matrix, and other factors. In the Paluxy, tracks near the river banks tend to stay mud covered and better protected, and thus last longer, than ones located near the middle of the river, where they are subjected to more weathering and the main force of river flow. Yttevya, have you considered the impact of your writing on the reader? These sorts of statements cause you to lose credibility, and nothing you say afterward is taken seriously.
There are numerous examples of so-called macro evolution in the fossil record starting with Archeopterix 2 years after Darwin published. After all, macro-evolution is simply micro-evolution set upon a longer time scale. It is counter intuitive to suggest that a theory that explains change over a long period cannot explain change over a very long period.
I have been doing on site study of the Paluxy tracks and related controversies for over 30 years. I never said such any thing; that is an old speculation by Texas paleontologist Wann Langston which is not borne out by on site research Langston no loner holds this interpretation. As I explained in my articles, and the intro at my site, the alleged human tracks involve a variety of phenomena.
The majority are forms of elongate, metatarsal dinosaur tracks, made by bipedal dinosaurs that sometimes impressed their metatarsi heels and soles as they walked. When the digit impressions of such tracks are subdued by mud-backflow or secondary infilling, a somewhat human shape often results. To contrary to the impression left in the article, the alleged human tracks do not involve only a single phenomena, and none are middle toe impressions of dino tracks.
When examined thoroughly and carefully, the Paluxy tracks provide no evidence for young-earth creationism, and instead further support the many lines of evidence that indicate that the earth has had a long and complex history. Thank you for allowing me to make these clarifications. A quick google search prove this is not the case. It is simply the mechanism that provides for the level of diversity after biological origination. What concerns me is the way science now emulates the medival church….
Fakes, mistakes Aliens, or time travellers…. How does science emulate the medieval church? There is no dogma, proposed from on high and enforced by an inquisition, that forces adherents to believe things against the evidence. While there may be a reluctance to abandon long held theories, they do eventually crumble under the weight of contrary evidence. Contrast that with the medieval attitudes to scripture still held by creationists: no amount of contrary evidence will ever permit them to abandon their belief in the literal truth of biblical narrative.
As for the Paluxy footprints, if a single genuinely human footprint were to be identified among the many preserved there—and, to date, none has—scientists would have to account for it. The way in which modern science simulates dogma is this: if a geologist today became convinced that evolution is not true, and started publishing papers to that effect, he would see his funding and academic reputation imperiled, regardless of any merit his claims may have.
I am also not saying creationists are right. As far as creation and the age of the earth, biblical world views can be of an old earth that was refurbished gap theory stuff or even a young earth, biblical thinkers are not in a box as it seems some people here think. Not all biblical students or scholars think people and dinosaurs existed in the same time either.
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The fact that we cant even explain how a earth that is hundreds of millions of years old and has signs of life existing those millions of years back could even support such life with a sun that was hundreds of millions of years younger and smaller, that is a problem… and the idea that the atmosphere was thicker has holes, a guy from NASA did a study recently on ancient fossil rain drops that showed from the impressions that rain fell at the same speed just about making the atmosphere almost identical to todays atmosphere.
Its a mystery… and not only that the oceans show signs of only being thousands of years old not millions, the sea shores show signs of being thousands of years old… not to mention the only thing that says the earth was millions of years old is carbon dating which is hardly acurate, lets be honest.
So yes, people who believe in evolution and ancient earths and all that are still faithing in their evidence they think makes their story, though there are holes they are aware of but dont share out loud. And honestly they force feed people more then the church, creation isnt even allowed to be taught in school so people dont have a choice but to be force fed one idea and not be told the holes in it and let people decide for themselves, its like brainwashing and its sad. Reply The catholic church is the true sheep herder and they never try to hide it.
Jesus the shepherd, the people his flock. Just wanted to help brings your creationist argument full circle….
Ryan, in amongst everything else you say that. Rocks do not live and die, sorry. Well put, I absolutely love your logic and was just thinking exactly that the other day. You do realize that you based almost your entire argument off of ignorance?
The Dinosaur Darwin Missed – Texas Monthly
Where would you get million years old for the earth? Dear Ryan, Do explain how you can do carbon dating on vulcanic rocks. Explain how you can do carbon dating on material Thanks for illumanating me. Whatever made these tracks obviously had different size feet.
If both creatures weighed the same, the small prints would be deeper than the large prints. It is simply the same as a person walking in regular shoes as compared to walking in snow shoes. Since both prints sank to the same depth, one could assume that they had the same weight per square inch of foot area, but could not possibly be the same weight. The strata depth to which both prints sank could also have been more dense than the upper layers. The discussion about track depths starts with the false assumption that the Paluxy tracks are all about the same depth.
Actually they vary greatly in depth from barely impressed to over a foot deep. Also, track depth depends on several factors, including the consistency of the sediment softness, moisture content, etc , weight of the animal and foot size and shape, etc. Furthermore , some tracks that are shallow now were originally deeper, but have become shallower through erosion or infilling. This just proves to me more personally that the earth has indeed 3 earth ages.
Which the Bible does in fact account for. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth period. And then it became void. Even in Job when God was describing the Behemoth which could only be a dinosaur. He was talking about the first earth age. I am no expert but could there have been later species that had tracks similar to dinosaurs but were not?
Or could there have been some survival of small dinosaurs post-Chicxulub? Especially since most mammals for a fair while after the impact would have been small creatures since small creatures tend to weather this sort of thing better think Permian extinction. Just a question for anyone who wants to field it. I understand that in Cambodia there is a very clear carving which I have seen, though not in person of what looks to me like a stegasaurus. Any thoughts on this? Any thoughts on that? Or on the carvings of Ica, Peru? For those not familiar with them, a professor in Ica has a huge collection of stones carved with clear, fairlyl accurate carvings of humans and dinosaurs together and again, the depections are pretty accurate of stegasaurus and triceratops.
Also in I believe Chichen Itza is a paintinnd in one corner is what clearly looks like a raptor. Personally, I think the ancients may have been better at figuring out what a creature might have looked like, given sufficent skeleton to work with, than we might want to give them credit for.
Like I said, I just find this all interesting. In short, there is no convincing evidence that it, or other ancient art shows real dinosaurs, excepting of course birds now classified as feathered theropod dinos by most paleontologists. You also seem to have some basic misunderstandings about the Paluxy evidence and earth history in general, as indicated by your opening question.
Others are not even real tracks, but carvings, erosion marks, or other misidentified phenomena. I believe he holds that life indeed did arise from geo-chemical processes in the past. There is also increasing evidence as to how this came about. Obvious fact: Even if humans and dinosaurs had existed at the same time, it would not have been for very long.
Young-Earthers are dogmatic religionists who do God a great disservice by making Christians appear illogical and ignorant. Julie; the passage in Job does NOT say the behemoth had a tail like a cedar tree. Go read it again. Read the whole passage Job The dinosaur Ken Ham and the rest are describing stands 90 feet tall. The lotus tree grows to about 30 feet. The passage, in its entirety, is probably describing an elephant, which fits just nicely with the description and under a lotus tree. Jim is right.
YECs have not accurately portrayed these passages. Claims of dinosaurs in petroglyphs and other ancient art do not stand up to close scrutiny. Also, which sauropod stood 90 feet at the shoulders? MaximRecoil, Regardless of whether the animal could fit under a lotus tree, there is no compelling evidence that the verses in Job refer to dinosaurs. The main argument that some creationists use to argue for behemoth being a sauropod is the verse supposedly indicating that it had a tail as large as a cedar tree.
Aside from a person on this thread, who is claiming that the verse indicates that it had a tail as large as a cedar tree? Neither cedar trees nor boulders move on their own, but they can be moved with a lot of force, and once in motion they carry a lot of momentum. But regardless of that, the overall context suggests something larger than life, far more impressive than any creature on Earth today. Additionally, in the very next chapter, another critter is described in the same context of belittling Job, i. MaximRecoil, I get the impression from your response that you have not read my article that already addresses most o what you wrote.
Did you? When you talk about the idea that Leviathan seems unlike any animal on earth today, do you give due consideration for the possibility of poetic or metaphoric language, that may not be all literal? After all, the Bible mentions unicorns too.
That sure sounds big and scary to me. Those ancient pre-Hebrews sure had a way with their poetry. It is what it is. I want to figure out what really happened down there. The problem, Mr. Kuban,is that they keep finding new tracks along the Paluxy. Old Joe Taylor made a latex mold of a very human-like footprint that went down through the middle of an acrocanthosaur track — immediately after the limestone layer was peeled back on July 3rd I made the first cast of the track from that mold he made, and I put my foot down in that cast.
My toes fit.
The Dunvegan Formation
I could feel where her toes slid down into the mud. I felt like I had just stepped back in time, my foot matching the print of another woman who had lived long ago. Another print Joe molded the year prior, after uncovering it in front of a Japanese camera crew, I made casts of that one too. The human tracks were significantly, clearly more shallow than the dino tracks, and the dino track half a foot away showed no evidence of infill.
Plus, there are other tracks in that trackway obviously made by the same human. Same strong second-digit impression. Human-like toe impression. If the evidence was so abundant, plain, and compelling as you claim, or even close, then please explain each of the following: 1. Why have no rigorous, scientific articles documenting this evidence been published, even in the creationist press?
If you disagree, please point us to one of these rigorous papers, even in what YECs consider their most rigorous journals like CRSQ or the Journal of Creation or whatever it is being called these days.